The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the Absolute Truth
The Villagers and the train - Different realizations of the Absolute Truth
The three aspects of the Absolute Truth.
I - Sound - OM
2 - Light - Brahman (Brahmajyoti)
3 - Form (Vigraha) and Individuality that incorporates the first two revealing the full potential of the Absolute Truth as Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual marginal living entities as bodily Forms in their full potential.
Here in this story we understand beyond LIGHT (Brahmajyoti) is LIFE and individual FORM
Many years ago, the British came to India and began building a train line between Delhi and Mathura.
Many simple villages on the outskirts at the time had no idea what a train looked like, so when the time had come to greet the train, the village elders sent a young representative down to meet the train and ascertain what it is and then come back with the news of its anticipated arrival.
On the evening of its appearance, the villagers patiently and inquisitively waited in expectation and wonder of what a ‘train’ was.
Eventually day turned to night and everyone in the Village became anxious and excited, knowing the train’s arrival was imminent.
The fact was, no one had any inkling of what a train was.
The young boy was dispatched and was told to immediately report back to the Village elder as soon as he identifies the train. Off the young boy went in the dark and began to wait patiently.
The night sky was clear and there was very little breeze in the air, he could hear the usual sounds of native animals although; even they were quite on this still moonless chilly night.
Then to the young boys surprise, out of the pitch black darkness and the still of night, he heard this thunderous extended high-pitched sound (the train whistles), being excited, he was convinced he now new what the train was. He immediately ran back to the village elders and excitedly told them,
"The train is a big sound"
Most accepted the news as final that a train is a sound but some of the elders were still puzzled thinking there must be more
Still not convinced the train was just a sound, feeling puzzled, a few decided to send another young villager down to investigate this sound and if there was more to the train.
The second boy the villager elders sent down was told to wait well into the darkness of night until the sound came closer to him to see if the train was just a sound.
Eventually, after hearing the sound many times in a mood of fear of the unknown and inquisitiveness of what a train really is, he finally saw in the distance an extremely bright light getting brighter and brighter that scared him.
The combination of the sound and the bright blinding light frightened him because he did not understand what he was experiencing!
Being afraid he rushed back to the elders proclaiming,
“The train is a 'bright blinding light and sound”
Many at the village where now convinced what a train was and most were satisfied and returned to their homes however, a few believed there might be more to a train than an impersonal sound and scary light.
So again they sent a third boy to investigate.
He also began to patiently wait and stay for as long as it takes until the sound and light reached him.
He experienced the sound getting louder and louder as it got closer and the light at the same time was getting brighter and brighter.
Then to the boy's surprise, both the sound and light rushed him by.
To his astonishment, he discovered the source of both the sound and light was coming from the people controlling the light and sound of a machine moving on rails called a train and behind the train controlling the sound and light were individual persons, people like himself.
Behind the sound and light was form like carriages filled with people like him, all engaging in all kinds of different activities?
He ran back to the village yelling,
“The train is full of people and form from where the sound and light has emanated!!
Behind the ''light'' are people in bodily forms engaged in all kinds of activity.
The light is NOT the ultimate state of existence because behind the light is where the full potential of who we really are as ''persons'' fully exists.
They all eventually saw the train for what it really is (Personalism)
The Brahmajyoti is like the sun rays that can also be individual sparks of living light in the secondary inactive conditional state of their nature as well as their fully ''original active devotional form'' in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana where they are in their full potential as individual persons with a bodily spiritual form in Vishnu or Krishna's pastimes.
Everything emanates from the Bodily Form of Krishna who is just like the Sun and Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes and origin of all Vishnu Forms as well.
To say we, the marginal living entities, came from an impersonal origin, is not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.
Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition.
When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.
The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down. It does not matter where a living entity stays.
In the material world also there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished he again comes down on the earthly planet.
Similarly those who are elevated beyond the planetary system to the brahma effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system.
As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent" End of quote.
In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet.
So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated.”
What Prabhupada is saying is the jivas were previously active ''before'' entering Maha Vishnu's effulgence or the impersonal brahmajyoti, he is saying they never originated from that brahmajyoti effulgent light even though it may ''appear'' they do because of an enormous time span.
They have actually fallen to that effulgence by entering it at the end of the previous material creation or may have entered it as an impersonalist yogi, they have never originated from there or Maha Vishnu either because long, long, long before that they fell from Vaikuntha
This is explained here –
Revatīnandana: You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the spirit soul then goes into the brahma-jyotir, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahma-jyotir is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva soul, and I go to the brahma-jyotir I'm still fallen.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That means all jīva souls there are also fallen souls.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That follows?
Srila Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vibhinnāṁśa. Separated parts. Separated parts, vibhinnāṁśa. You can call it fallen.
Revatīnandana: But we usually think of fallen as being forgetful.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also forgetfulness. In the brahma-jyotir you are forgetful still. Because you are... That is stated in the śāstra, anādhṛta yuṣmad anghrayaḥ. Anādhṛta. They do not know how to adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is forgetfulness.
Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject - “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna Happening album 1966
Question -
Devotee - "Can the living entity forget Krishna for an eternity if they desire? Is that "choice" always up to the living entity? If the living entity wants, can they "never" return back home back to Godhead?"
Answer -
Pradyumna dasa - "The fact is over an enormous period of time that the material universes exist, many great devotees and expansions of Krishna appear to remind all fallen souls who they really are as jivatma (soul) and where their real eternal home (Vaikuntha) is. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu also comes, He only wants to save even those who have seemed to been lost and forgotten about over billions of years in the material creation that may seem almost like an eternity.
The Lord and His pure devotees wants to take EVERYONE back to Godhead
So EVENTUALLY yes, all souls WILL again see the Lord back Vaikuntha by the desire and mercy of the pure devotees and causeless mercy of the Lord.
It may take a very, very, very, very long time, but all souls WILL be saved because of the selfless devotees who never stop trying to save ALL fallen souls". End of quote
Here is an example of material time -
When Brahma dies the next material creation created by the next Brahma does not manifest straight away, there is an enormous period of time between creations where the universe is inactive.
An example of how long a soul can stay in the material creation is explained as follows.
All souls still with material desires at the annihilation of this material universe when the present Brahma dies, are absorbed as individual jivas into the Body of Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and remain in a dormant inactive state until the next Brahma creates a new material universe.
This period of being dormant between the death of a Brahma and the birth of the next one coming from Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, is 311 trillion 40 billion human years.
Each Brahma also lives for 311 trillion 40 billion human years which is 100 of his years that exists in the higher heavenly planets.
Time moves differently in each of the 14 mssterial planetary systems.
The soul trappped is in the material creation of experiencing repeated birth and desth, is here for such an enormous amount of time, for almost an eternity by logic, eventually WILL again come in contact with the great pure devotees of the Lord and "EVENTUALLY" be saved by such rare pure devotees.
Then that experience of time that seemed an an almost eternity, will now seems like an less than a second of time.
A devotee can save anyone, it just may take an little to convince those who have been here for billions of life times.
It is up to the mercy of the devotees to reach out and save all souls.
This is the answer.
The appearance of both Lord Krishna in His original Childhood Form and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan Movement are very rare.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Sankirtan is the heartbeat of Lord Caitanya's Movement. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in the chanting of Hare Krishna without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy'' 1966 Hare Krishna Album.
The over all lifespan of our 4 billion mile diameter small material universe known as Bhu-Mandala that houses 14 planetary systems, is 311 Trillion 40 billion human years which is how long Lord Brahma, the creator and administrator of this universe lives for (100 of his years).
We are presently in the 51st years of Lord Brahma which means our material universe is approximately 156 Trillion earth years old.
This is a lot older than modern sciences 13.7 billion years old.
Furthermore Lord Caitanya and Krishna in His original Form both come only "once" in a day-night 24 hour period of Lord Brahma.
His day and night together (24 hours) lasts for 8 billion 640 million earth years.
All the four yugas Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali are collectively called a Maha-yugas.
All yugas only happen during the 12 hour day-time period of Brahma from Sunrise to Sunset while the 12 hour night-time period from Sunset to Sunrise there is a partial annihilation of the universe while Lord Brahma sleeps.
So from Sunrise to Sunset of Brahma's day there are 1000 Maha yugas. A Maha yuga is a cycle of four yugas Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali.
And from Sunset to Sunrise (during Brahma's night) no Maha yugas exist.
In 311 trillion 40 billion human years Brahma Lord Caitanya comes 36,000 times to just "one" Kali-yuga out of 1000 in each 24 hour day period of Brahma.
Lord Krishna in His original Form also comes only "once" in a day-night 24 hour time period of Brahma at the end of a Dvapara-yuga.
Lord Krishna only appears like Lord Caitanya between Sunrise to Sunset period of Brahma's day when all the Maha yugas are created as explained above.
So Lord Krishna appears at the end of just "one" Dvapara-yuga out of every 1000 between Brahma's Sunrise to Sunset day.
Lord Krishna also appears 36,000 times over the one hundred year life span of Brahma's life which is 311 trillion 40 billion human years.
The three aspects of the Absolute Truth.
I - Sound - OM
2 - Light - Brahman (Brahmajyoti)
3 - Form (Vigraha) and Individuality that incorporates the first two revealing the full potential of the Absolute Truth as Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual marginal living entities as bodily Forms in their full potential.
Here in this story we understand beyond LIGHT (Brahmajyoti) is LIFE and individual FORM
Many years ago, the British came to India and began building a train line between Delhi and Mathura.
Many simple villages on the outskirts at the time had no idea what a train looked like, so when the time had come to greet the train, the village elders sent a young representative down to meet the train and ascertain what it is and then come back with the news of its anticipated arrival.
On the evening of its appearance, the villagers patiently and inquisitively waited in expectation and wonder of what a ‘train’ was.
Eventually day turned to night and everyone in the Village became anxious and excited, knowing the train’s arrival was imminent.
The fact was, no one had any inkling of what a train was.
The young boy was dispatched and was told to immediately report back to the Village elder as soon as he identifies the train. Off the young boy went in the dark and began to wait patiently.
The night sky was clear and there was very little breeze in the air, he could hear the usual sounds of native animals although; even they were quite on this still moonless chilly night.
Then to the young boys surprise, out of the pitch black darkness and the still of night, he heard this thunderous extended high-pitched sound (the train whistles), being excited, he was convinced he now new what the train was. He immediately ran back to the village elders and excitedly told them,
"The train is a big sound"
Most accepted the news as final that a train is a sound but some of the elders were still puzzled thinking there must be more
Still not convinced the train was just a sound, feeling puzzled, a few decided to send another young villager down to investigate this sound and if there was more to the train.
The second boy the villager elders sent down was told to wait well into the darkness of night until the sound came closer to him to see if the train was just a sound.
Eventually, after hearing the sound many times in a mood of fear of the unknown and inquisitiveness of what a train really is, he finally saw in the distance an extremely bright light getting brighter and brighter that scared him.
The combination of the sound and the bright blinding light frightened him because he did not understand what he was experiencing!
Being afraid he rushed back to the elders proclaiming,
“The train is a 'bright blinding light and sound”
Many at the village where now convinced what a train was and most were satisfied and returned to their homes however, a few believed there might be more to a train than an impersonal sound and scary light.
So again they sent a third boy to investigate.
He also began to patiently wait and stay for as long as it takes until the sound and light reached him.
He experienced the sound getting louder and louder as it got closer and the light at the same time was getting brighter and brighter.
Then to the boy's surprise, both the sound and light rushed him by.
To his astonishment, he discovered the source of both the sound and light was coming from the people controlling the light and sound of a machine moving on rails called a train and behind the train controlling the sound and light were individual persons, people like himself.
Behind the sound and light was form like carriages filled with people like him, all engaging in all kinds of different activities?
He ran back to the village yelling,
“The train is full of people and form from where the sound and light has emanated!!
Behind the ''light'' are people in bodily forms engaged in all kinds of activity.
The light is NOT the ultimate state of existence because behind the light is where the full potential of who we really are as ''persons'' fully exists.
They all eventually saw the train for what it really is (Personalism)
The Brahmajyoti is like the sun rays that can also be individual sparks of living light in the secondary inactive conditional state of their nature as well as their fully ''original active devotional form'' in Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana where they are in their full potential as individual persons with a bodily spiritual form in Vishnu or Krishna's pastimes.
Everything emanates from the Bodily Form of Krishna who is just like the Sun and Supreme Personality of Godhead and cause of all causes and origin of all Vishnu Forms as well.
To say we, the marginal living entities, came from an impersonal origin, is not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
Letter to: Revatinandana — Los Angeles 13 June, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question, about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness.
Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition.
When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition.
The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness immediately he is fallen down. It does not matter where a living entity stays.
In the material world also there are different stages of living conditions, and to remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that conditioned souls by their pious activities are elevated to the higher planetary system, but as soon as the stock of pious activities is finished he again comes down on the earthly planet.
Similarly those who are elevated beyond the planetary system to the brahma effulgence, they are also prone to fall down as much as a living entity from the higher planetary system.
As such those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent" End of quote.
In other words, they are actually not liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world as much as a living entity elevated to the higher planetary system comes down to this earthly planet.
So we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated.”
What Prabhupada is saying is the jivas were previously active ''before'' entering Maha Vishnu's effulgence or the impersonal brahmajyoti, he is saying they never originated from that brahmajyoti effulgent light even though it may ''appear'' they do because of an enormous time span.
They have actually fallen to that effulgence by entering it at the end of the previous material creation or may have entered it as an impersonalist yogi, they have never originated from there or Maha Vishnu either because long, long, long before that they fell from Vaikuntha
This is explained here –
Revatīnandana: You very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the spirit soul then goes into the brahma-jyotir, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahma-jyotir is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva soul, and I go to the brahma-jyotir I'm still fallen.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That means all jīva souls there are also fallen souls.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: That follows?
Srila Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vibhinnāṁśa. Separated parts. Separated parts, vibhinnāṁśa. You can call it fallen.
Revatīnandana: But we usually think of fallen as being forgetful.
Srila Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also forgetfulness. In the brahma-jyotir you are forgetful still. Because you are... That is stated in the śāstra, anādhṛta yuṣmad anghrayaḥ. Anādhṛta. They do not know how to adore the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is forgetfulness.
Srila Prabhupada was very clear on this subject - “Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport” Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.” - (Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha”. Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” Original Hare Krsna Happening album 1966
Question -
Devotee - "Can the living entity forget Krishna for an eternity if they desire? Is that "choice" always up to the living entity? If the living entity wants, can they "never" return back home back to Godhead?"
Answer -
Pradyumna dasa - "The fact is over an enormous period of time that the material universes exist, many great devotees and expansions of Krishna appear to remind all fallen souls who they really are as jivatma (soul) and where their real eternal home (Vaikuntha) is. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu also comes, He only wants to save even those who have seemed to been lost and forgotten about over billions of years in the material creation that may seem almost like an eternity.
The Lord and His pure devotees wants to take EVERYONE back to Godhead
So EVENTUALLY yes, all souls WILL again see the Lord back Vaikuntha by the desire and mercy of the pure devotees and causeless mercy of the Lord.
It may take a very, very, very, very long time, but all souls WILL be saved because of the selfless devotees who never stop trying to save ALL fallen souls". End of quote
Here is an example of material time -
When Brahma dies the next material creation created by the next Brahma does not manifest straight away, there is an enormous period of time between creations where the universe is inactive.
An example of how long a soul can stay in the material creation is explained as follows.
All souls still with material desires at the annihilation of this material universe when the present Brahma dies, are absorbed as individual jivas into the Body of Garbhodakasayi Vishnu and remain in a dormant inactive state until the next Brahma creates a new material universe.
This period of being dormant between the death of a Brahma and the birth of the next one coming from Garbhodakasayi Vishnu, is 311 trillion 40 billion human years.
Each Brahma also lives for 311 trillion 40 billion human years which is 100 of his years that exists in the higher heavenly planets.
Time moves differently in each of the 14 mssterial planetary systems.
The soul trappped is in the material creation of experiencing repeated birth and desth, is here for such an enormous amount of time, for almost an eternity by logic, eventually WILL again come in contact with the great pure devotees of the Lord and "EVENTUALLY" be saved by such rare pure devotees.
Then that experience of time that seemed an an almost eternity, will now seems like an less than a second of time.
A devotee can save anyone, it just may take an little to convince those who have been here for billions of life times.
It is up to the mercy of the devotees to reach out and save all souls.
This is the answer.
The appearance of both Lord Krishna in His original Childhood Form and Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan Movement are very rare.
Srila Prabhupada - ''Sankirtan is the heartbeat of Lord Caitanya's Movement. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such, anyone can take part in the chanting of Hare Krishna without any previous qualification, and dance in ecstasy'' 1966 Hare Krishna Album.
The over all lifespan of our 4 billion mile diameter small material universe known as Bhu-Mandala that houses 14 planetary systems, is 311 Trillion 40 billion human years which is how long Lord Brahma, the creator and administrator of this universe lives for (100 of his years).
We are presently in the 51st years of Lord Brahma which means our material universe is approximately 156 Trillion earth years old.
This is a lot older than modern sciences 13.7 billion years old.
Furthermore Lord Caitanya and Krishna in His original Form both come only "once" in a day-night 24 hour period of Lord Brahma.
His day and night together (24 hours) lasts for 8 billion 640 million earth years.
All the four yugas Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali are collectively called a Maha-yugas.
All yugas only happen during the 12 hour day-time period of Brahma from Sunrise to Sunset while the 12 hour night-time period from Sunset to Sunrise there is a partial annihilation of the universe while Lord Brahma sleeps.
So from Sunrise to Sunset of Brahma's day there are 1000 Maha yugas. A Maha yuga is a cycle of four yugas Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali.
And from Sunset to Sunrise (during Brahma's night) no Maha yugas exist.
In 311 trillion 40 billion human years Brahma Lord Caitanya comes 36,000 times to just "one" Kali-yuga out of 1000 in each 24 hour day period of Brahma.
Lord Krishna in His original Form also comes only "once" in a day-night 24 hour time period of Brahma at the end of a Dvapara-yuga.
Lord Krishna only appears like Lord Caitanya between Sunrise to Sunset period of Brahma's day when all the Maha yugas are created as explained above.
So Lord Krishna appears at the end of just "one" Dvapara-yuga out of every 1000 between Brahma's Sunrise to Sunset day.
Lord Krishna also appears 36,000 times over the one hundred year life span of Brahma's life which is 311 trillion 40 billion human years.
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